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Journeys Promo For Season 4, Episode 7

Here’s a quick preview of our latest Journeys episode! We talked with accessibility and usability tester Kaare Dehard in this episode of #Journeys ! Our discussion includes Kaare’s empowered lived experience, software accessibility, inaccessibility and much more!

You can find the full episode by scrolling down this page.

FULL JOURNEYS EPISODE: Season 4, Episode 7

Under The Surface : Season 3, Episode 1

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I think there’s a great distinction and both need to be addressed. If it’s accessible but not user-friendly, I’m not likely to use it.

I can still get things done and it does work by the book, but it may not be the most pleasant experience and as a consumer I’m I’m as much interested in that.

However, as somebody who’s trying to develop something, they might wish to get the accessibility components solid before they work on the on the user experience and that’s fair too.

Is it isn’t that in essence … I know they’re two distinct things, but is it in in essence tied, tied together really tightly? Because if if someone’s uncomfortable using something, it’s essentially in, right?

Well when I look at accessibility, when you when you use a screen reader to go over a button, does it read the correct label… when you press that button, does it activate properly or is there something blocking it accessibility-wise?

When I’m looking at user experience, I’m looking at how do I feel when I use this?

I need to specify that if it doesn’t have inclusion in your, you can’t say that… What do you.

Yeah, I think this is somebody not grasping the whole concept, right?

You know, somebody in marketing, Well, that’s a really cool word. Throw that in. You know we’re inclusive. Well, what does inclusive actually mean to them? People use that word as if it’s, you know, throw it around.

Yeah, yeah, they throw it around…


They apply it because it sounds cool in an ad, but it sometimes is not where they’re at.

And they use the word inclusion and accessible when it’s partially accessible and it’s partially inclusive. And if one were to ask somebody about that, they say, well, we’re working on it.

OK, fair enough. But do you have a timeline, you know, do you have any specific goals that you’re attempting to meet? Well, you’re you’re saying you’re working on it or is that just one of those empty kind of platitudes?

If they truly are working on it, I applaud them. If they’re truly not, I don’t think I’ll buy from them.

…that cares about accessibility and is starting a new business or is you know, knows better to just integrate it and to from the ground up and then it’s much easier.

But think about like the businesses that never knew or were not even aware, you know, that that needed to be integrated and they’re having to learn.

So, you know, in some ways, you know, it’s our responsibility to help people understand that why that’s important and …


Right. It’s important to be supportive rather than punitive, right. Whenever possible. I mean, there’s there’s always gonna be exceptions to every rule where you know, a great giant corporation is just being stuck in the mud and stubborn and they just don’t want to.

And that’s where legislation comes in, in whichever country we’re in to try to provide counter incentives so that they find a new way to think about this.